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lydamorehouse ([personal profile] lydamorehouse) wrote2007-11-27 09:50 am
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Unintended Consequences

I finished a really great book the other day.  I'd love to talk about it, but I don't always feel like I can.  I started to talk about this problem over at SF Novelists: Writers as Readers or Worse (?) Fans.  But, I'm not sure I had enough coffee to get to the heart of the issue, because more than just gushing to y'all about the positives of this book, what I really, REALLY want is a forum in which we could have meaningful dialogue about this book.

Those of you who have met me at various conventions know that there's nothing I like better than a good debate.  I was raised a Unitarian Universalist and I often joke that for me coffee and an intellectual argument is a religious experience.  One of my favorite things about fandom is that it puts me in rooms filled with people who read (and watch and play) the same stuff I do, so the chances are I can find someone to talk to about whatever I've just finished/discovered and that I'm fired up about.  I think most fans understand that you can be critical about the things you love, so they know I mean no disrespect when I note the lack of queer characters on Battlestar Galatica, etc.  I still love the show. I don't have to say that over and over for anyone in the room to believe it.  The fact that I've memorized scenes, etc., shows my devotion.   But, when an author criticizes another writer, it feels different -- even when what you might have to say comes from the fact that you loved the book... got so into it, in fact, that it became IMPORTANT enough to want to argue about it.  

The golden rule doesn't work in this situation, because my skin has been made particularly tough by years of theatre training. No one wants to hear that they suck.  An unfair review still hurts me, but criticism that comes out of love bothers me a whole lot less.  I might still be stung by what someone has to say, but I tend to see that sort of criticism as a challenge (in the most positive sense of that word.)   I don't tend to take that stuff personally.  I defend my work, but I don't transfer my passion to the critic. 

But I know that I'm weird that way.  I've used this blog (or Tate's) a couple of times as a forum to talk about books I loved, though not unconditionally, and I think because all of us authors have "google alert" set to notify us of any mention of our names I may have made some authors cranky with me.  

I know I'm going to sound like an old lady, but in someways I miss the old listserv system.  Even though they were a public forum, I liked the way a person's argument could develop over short replies/posts, and the whole thing felt more like a conversation than a statement of opinion.  I had a lot fewer qualms about being fannish on listservs, because the audience was smaller and the arguments more transitory.

This is a really long way of saying I loved Jo Walton's FARTHING.  You should read it.  Then we should get together for some coffee (or on a panel) and talk about it. 

[identity profile] swords-and-pens.livejournal.com 2007-11-27 04:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I just finished it last month. Coffee next week? (This week is shot.)
naomikritzer: (Default)

[personal profile] naomikritzer 2007-11-27 06:45 pm (UTC)(link)
YEAH. That would be awesome. I don't know when I'm going to manage it, but I'll come up with something. Maybe Wednesday between 9:30 and 11:30? That's when Kiera is at preschool. (I drop her there at 9 and pick her up at 11:45.)

Farthing

[identity profile] warriorofworry.livejournal.com 2007-11-27 08:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Here's my penny! I literally just finished this the other night and may need to re-read it right away. It hit lots of right notes, and I've been thinking about it ever since . . . Tho I mostly luuurk, I'd love to participate in a 'conversation' about this one.

[identity profile] morgan-dhu.livejournal.com 2007-11-27 10:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I wish I were in such circumstances that I could have an opportunity to really talk about certain books, the ones that make me want to have those kinds of all-night coffee-fueled conversations about the real, the ideal and everything inbetween. Farthing, which I also recently read and was quite strongly affected by, is one of them.

Another is Timmel Duchamp's Renegade, the second volume of her Marq'ssan Cycle, which is possibly the most chilling examination I've ever seen of the way that fascism and a mingled slew of other nasty isms distort human relationships, in addition to out-1984-ing Orwell in its depiction of the psychological experience of torture and, for lack of a better word, brainwashing. I'm not entirely sure that recommend is the right word, but there's a great deal to talk about in her books, if you haven't already looked into them.


[identity profile] swords-and-pens.livejournal.com 2007-11-27 11:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Next week works for me. My only bad day, though, is Weds. from about 11:30 to 12:30.
naomikritzer: (Default)

[personal profile] naomikritzer 2007-11-28 12:16 am (UTC)(link)
I meant next Wednesday.
naomikritzer: (Default)

[personal profile] naomikritzer 2007-11-28 12:17 am (UTC)(link)
But would 9:30 to 11:30 on Wednesday work? Alternately, 2:30 to 4 on Tuesday would also be free for me, but might not be free for Lyda, and 9:30 to 11:30 on Thursday would approach the possibility of do-able.

[identity profile] swords-and-pens.livejournal.com 2007-11-28 01:23 am (UTC)(link)
Next Weds. at the times you mention is fine, although I may be a bit late since I usually don't get out of Cam's school until 9:30. Thurs. AM is okay, too. Tuesday afternoon is right out.

I vote for next Weds., with me getting there closer to 10:00.

[identity profile] k-mankiller.livejournal.com 2007-11-28 02:12 am (UTC)(link)
I'm at the stage in my career where I think someone linking one of my stories with the words, "ZOMG!!! READ THIS! IT'S WORSE THAN 'THE EYE OF ARGON!!!'" would give me a huge boost. Clearly, one's mileage will vary.
jiawen: NGC1300 barred spiral galaxy, in a crop that vaguely resembles the letter 'R' (Default)

[personal profile] jiawen 2007-11-28 07:46 am (UTC)(link)
If you'd like to have a panel about Farthing at Minicon, let me know. I wonder if [livejournal.com profile] papersky will be there?

There are also a lot of web forums where people might be interested in discussing the book. Let me know if you'd like some recommendations.

[identity profile] papersky.livejournal.com 2007-11-28 02:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Let's face it, I'm going to see it.

But it won't upset me at all, or anyway not for long, and I won't say anything.

I have exactly the same problem with my LJ, and it worries me a lot more than anything anyone says about my stuff -- that people will feel it a personal attack.
jiawen: NGC1300 barred spiral galaxy, in a crop that vaguely resembles the letter 'R' (Default)

[personal profile] jiawen 2007-11-28 10:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Are you going to be at Minicon 43, by any chance? Would you like to discuss Farthing there?
jiawen: NGC1300 barred spiral galaxy, in a crop that vaguely resembles the letter 'R' (Default)

[personal profile] jiawen 2007-11-28 10:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Opening it up to alternate WWII novels might be too broad, actually. It seems like enough people have read Farthing and would want to discuss it to just focus on the book (and its sequels).

[identity profile] papersky.livejournal.com 2007-11-29 12:21 pm (UTC)(link)
As a result of the Maher Arar thing, I am no longer going into the US frivolously. So no, unfortunately. I'd love to be at Minicon, but I won't be.

I am however holding a mini-convention in Montreal every September largely so I can see my US friends -- next year's is probably going to be over Labor Day. ([Unknown site tag] if any of you are interested.)

[identity profile] technocracygirl.livejournal.com 2007-11-29 04:14 pm (UTC)(link)
I just finished Farthing yesterday, and ggod heavens, I wanted someone to talk it out with. It hit really hard, hard enough that I got the same depression-cum-anger that I remember after reading Jane Yolen's Briar Rose. There's just too much there for me to tease out on my own. (And wonderful narrators. Oh, the lovely threads of characterization...and the niggling ones...)

So if you're ever at a con that I am, I'll remember to ask you about it.

jiawen: NGC1300 barred spiral galaxy, in a crop that vaguely resembles the letter 'R' (Default)

[personal profile] jiawen 2007-11-29 07:15 pm (UTC)(link)
I could hardly think of a better reason to avoid the US. We are so avoidable these days.

If we have a panel about Farthing at Minicon, and there are any points you'd like brought up, let me know and I can make sure that someone on the panel gets handouts.